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The Old Coyote

Drummond Island, Michigan

Joined: 11/18/2004

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Posted: 09/23/08 08:00am

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I will add that the Iron Dog doesn't style it's winner as, "World's Champion", something I have always thought presumptuous of any single event to call the winner. Rather that was said by a proud wife, so complainers, "Get over it!"

I wonder if Todd secretly is pulling for Obama? Can't imagine he wants to be stuck in D.C.

"I solemnly swear I am up to no good."

TigorRacing176

Buffalo, NY

Joined: 01/05/2006

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Posted: 09/23/08 09:50am

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I consider him a world champion. The only world championships that are settled in ER are ovals. What about the snowcross people they dont have theirs in ER. The Iron Dog is 1000 times harder than the Champ race, tougher, longer, more exhausting, and colder temperatures. For ER to call a champ guy a WORLD CHAMPION and only come from US or CANADA well thats not really the world. People from all over the WORLD come out for this race. This coming from someone who is voting for the other guy to win.lol.

CHAMP guys dont think im not saying what you do is great or hard in any means, I would love to win at ER on a champ but i just dont think its comparable to winning an IRON DOG.

Ovals Forever

Lisbon ND

Joined: 03/22/2005

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Posted: 09/23/08 07:06pm

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You might want to try both before you can judge which one is harder to win.

The Iron Dog has been running for 25 years, oh make that 24 years, in 2003 the Iron Dog was CANCELLED "Something E.R. has never done in 45 years"

The Iron Dog in 24 years of running has two 7 time winners, a five time winner, to 4 time winners and a couple three time winners.

"The Worlds Championship Snowmobile Race in Eagle River Wisconson"
in 45 years of running has three 3 time winners and has never had
a 4 time winner and you are trying to tell me it is a 100 times harder to win the Iron Dog than the Eagle River Worlds Championship Snowmobile Derby.

What the #$%# are you smoking.

Mark Carr is a 4 time Iron Dog winner
Dan Zipay is a 5 time Iron Dog winner
Scott Davis is a 7 time Iron Dog Winner
John Faeo is a 7 time Iron Dog winner

This is off the Iron Dog web site

previous year's CHAMPIONS

2008 Marc McKenna & Eric Quam Arctic Cat 42:33:40
2007 Scott Davis & Todd Palin Arctic Cat 38:07
2006 Dwayne Drake & Andy George Arctic Cat 35:48
2005 Marc McKenna & Nick Olstad Arctic Cat 52:59
2004 Mark Carr & Dusty VanMeter Ski-Doo 39:03
2003 RACE CANCELLED --- ---
2002 Todd Palin & Dusty Van Meter Arctic Cat 38:41
2001 Tracey Brassard & Ken Lee Polaris 38:44
2000 Todd Palin & Dusty Van Meter Arctic Cat 41:10
1999 Scott Davis & Mark Carr Arctic Cat 38:30
1998 Scott Davis & Mark Carr Arctic Cat 44:47
1997 Scott Davis & Mark Carr Arctic Cat 61:08
1996 John Faeo & Bob Gilman Polaris 38:44
1995 Todd Palin & Dwayne Drake Polaris 58:24
1994 Dan Zipay & Evan Booth Polaris 71:38
1993 Scott Davis & Bill Long Arctic Cat 58:36
1992 Dan Zipay & Evan Booth Polaris 29:58
1991 John Faeo & Bob Gilman Polaris 30:10
1990 John Faeo & Bob Gilman Yamaha 40:12
1989 Scott Davis & Mark Torkelson Yamaha 40:12
1988 John Faeo & Dan Zipay Polaris ??

?
1987 John Faeo & Dan Zipay Polaris 51:00
1986 John Faeo & Dan Zipay Polaris 47:00
1985 Scott Davis & Gary Eoff Yamaha 38:00
1984 John Faeo & Rod Frank Polaris 23:50

The Old Coyote

Drummond Island, Michigan

Joined: 11/18/2004

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Posted: 09/23/08 09:54pm

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WHY was it cancelled. The reason might be illuminating. Getting in a 25 lap race isn't near the same as getting in 2000 miles across very rugged terrain. ER has had some good luck through the years to be able to get the races in, too. Been some close calls tha last few years wondering if it would get cold enough quick enough. So far, so good, but a lot of luck. Other oval tracks haven't always been that lucky.

Direct comparisons are really silly, was going to say stupid, as there is NO comparison to the two races. Kind of like comparing NASCAR to the Dakar race. Ask Robbie Gordon which one is tougher as he has done both.

Still silly to compare since the equipment and skills required are totally different.

kenlacy

Foooore!

Joined: 10/25/2001

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Posted: 09/23/08 10:59pm

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Can't compare 4 time winners and 7 time winners either. If the champ guys ran two guys on each team for a final - many of them would have more wins under their belts. Not saying anything against them, just that it is flawed logic in comparing.

I believe the Iron Dog requires much more overall toughness and conditioning - but that doesn't mean it is more difficult to win. Many other factors play into the equation. With the amount of resources (time and money) spent on champ racing, I would think the competition level was a bit higher than that of the Iron dog.

Would be interesting to hear from someone who may have raced in both.

Long time cat man

100 miles N. of Motor City

Joined: 01/22/2003

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Posted: 09/24/08 07:19am

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I respect and admire sled racers regardless of what form of racing they are involved in, but counting winners in one form over another and gauging the difficulty by that count is just plain silly in my book. I've seen Michigan enduro race teams up against the factory race teams of the 70's and 80's do quite well against them. I've seen cross country racers come to the Soo-500 enduro and shine near the end when other teams were worn out, and I've seen MIRA teams go to ER for the first time and clean house in their respective divisions. So from my perspective, it seems that the longer the race, the better and more conditioned the racer. So you can argue the point, but I would say the longer the race and the rougher the terrain, the tougher the race to win. JMO!

RpR#10

Alaska

Joined: 03/03/2004

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Posted: 09/24/08 10:34am

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Ive never raced at ER but I have raced at a Beausejour and tried the Iron Dog, as well as raced sno-x for 10 years, lemans enduros, and even grass dragged.

You really cant compare any of them. You cant really compare the Iron Dog to USCC racing. Each discipline requires an extraordinary amount of preparing, testing, training, and focus. But to say one is harder than the other is ridiculous.

But if you absolutely need a comparison, for me the Iron Dog was the hardest thing that I have ever done in snowmobile racing. I really have no desire to even try it again.

For us, Iron Dog training started in April '07 for the February '08 start. Working out, eating right, and racing motocross all summer. Once winter hit, every weekend was dedicated to training rides, no less than 150 miles a day. I should mention that our trails up here have never seen a groomer. Week days were spent in the garage rebuilding our new race sleds. Financially, as a team we spent nearly $45,000 getting to the ID starting line, probably comparable to a top of line Champ sled.

2003 the race was canceled due to warm weather and virtually no snow anywhere in Alaska.

2006 was questionable but the race went on. You can ask my friends that sunk a sled in overflow in the Bearing Strait (the Ocean) and spent the night on the shore how that was.

The reason for so many multi time ID winners, they are the most prepared, mechanically, mentally, and physically. Because they are the best, they are also now the most highly funded teams. The top teams even have chase planes that follow them along the trail.

2 person teams are for safety reason, injuries, mechanical, getting stuck, ect. The course time at the check points, layover points, and finish line doesnt stop until the second person in the team crosses the line.

I should mention that this isnt a stage race. All work is done on the race clock. No work is done during layovers. Parts and pieces are carried with you if you dont have a plane. Field repairs are done with anything you dream up. You should see the duct taped and bailing wired messes that finish the race.

Its a different deal for sure. I tried following Scott Davis once in a Valdez XC race after he lapped me, that didnt last long. Ive never hauled it into a corner on the ice with Moyle or Wahl, but I know I wouldnt hang.

Each discipline is different and each champion requires the same respect.

I believe in trying of each one and deciding for yourself.

The Old Coyote

Drummond Island, Michigan

Joined: 11/18/2004

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Posted: 09/24/08 11:37am

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Before the Iron Dog, what was the pre-cursor race that used be run from Anchorage (Wasilla)to Nome, roughly 1000 miles, by 4 sled teams. I remember a write-up about one in the mid 70's that was won by a team on Alpines. A team on Sno*Jets had 3 sleds finish 1st but had to go back and haul the 4th across the line (legal). By the time they finished all 4 Alpines crossed for the win. During the race a blizzard with heavy, fresh snow occured and for a while the Alpines were the only ones who could push through, breaking trail for the rest of the competitors. I think it took the top teams about a week to finish back then. Can't remember what they called the race or if it continued right up to the beginning of the Iron Dog. Maybe someone hanging out here remembers.

cat22

Swartz Creek, MI

Joined: 08/29/2003

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Posted: 09/24/08 11:43am

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excellent post Rpr 10

Pol-Cat

Stuntin like my daddy

Joined: 12/22/2003

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Posted: 09/24/08 12:04pm

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Ovals Forever wrote:

?
1987 John Faeo & Dan Zipay Polaris 51:00
1986 John Faeo & Dan Zipay Polaris 47:00
1985 Scott Davis & Gary Eoff Yamaha 38:00
1984 John Faeo & Rod Frank Polaris 23:50

$50,000 purse to win the iron dog, whats it pay to be the self-proclaimed "ER world champion"?

My vision is better then my hearing...shut up and show me something.

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