that 31 car
Next to the big swamp. Menchalville, WI.
Joined: 02/15/2002
View Profile
|
I really shouldn't go here, BUT,
1. Tech is not an issue either stock or mod if you got tech guys who want to work, and are willing to work in the cold. It's more of a issue for the sled owner, cause if you are good it comes apart weekly, gaskets, fasteners, fittings, etc all cost money. Plus when you guys are done racing you want to load and go home,to dinner, or whatever. Hanging around tech is not in your agenda.
2. Although I think there is more than enough hp in stock 600's, if you ran a stock class, expect to see the dollars go up to prep motors, like the old 56 hp class, the winner had the best cheater (no disrespect intended) motor builder. The deal is build it with all the right specs, but make it look like a off the shelf piece. The good blueprinters cost more than the good modifiers, simple as that. Years ago when I did it we sorted parts, now that's old hat, the good guys have procedures, machines, coatings, and processes that can take junk and turn it to hp.
Look at the guts of any new 600, any brand, every manufacturer has a process to make all parts usable. Various gaskets, pistons built to various dimensions, rod differences, etc. all designed to eliminate scrap at production level. The wide variation of correction factors available make stockers a builders dream. Years back every factory had a surplus parts place for scrap or overruns of parts, now with efficiencies and quality control little or no scrap, period.
Places like the old Roscoe surplus would go broke now days from lack of stuff to sell.
3. The new platform for the future must include an ability for several engine types and variations. Looking at it from what I have in my garage, and screw the new stuff won't cut it.
4. My opinion, there are more than enough 440's of all brands floating around to build as many champs as you can find guys to drive them. Even with the last 3 years of 300 builds, thats a hell of a lot of sleds to get motors out of. Hell there ain't 30 Champ guys in the world right now, and if you just got 5% of the engines built in the last 5 years in stock form you would have about 285 engines floating around. So I don't buy the 440's drying up story.
5. Run what we got for a few more years, let the industry settle out a bit. And then make educated rules over the platforms that rise to the top. In the mean time, keep improving what you have, we have not reached the end of chassis, engine, or suspension development of the present sled, don't be impressed by the idea of a new cure all, work with what you got.
Regards
Korinek
|
mbenoy119
IWA World Headquarters
Joined: 01/17/2005
View Profile
 Offline
|
all very valid points Jerry
|
proracer
st-cuthbert, québec, canada
Joined: 01/03/2004
View Profile
Offline
|
Jerry well said, there is still some good hp to sqeeze out of 440, and there is a lot of them out there and many parts for many years. Why screw with something that work pretty good. Will be cheaper to run cause of many motors laying around.
Bye
JV#96
|
Hoglund Racing
Minneapolis, MN
Joined: 05/13/2008
View Profile
|
proracer wrote:Jerry well said, there is still some good hp to sqeeze out of 440, and there is a lot of them out there and many parts for many years. Why screw with something that work pretty good. Will be cheaper to run cause of many motors laying around.
Bye
JV#96
I am glad you are still around Jacques. I think if Champ 440 goes, the sport goes. I believe there are enough 440 motors out there to supply our sport for the next 10 years. I say keep the existing rules for 4 more years and then we can make a different decision if needed.
www.HOGLUNDRACING.com
|
Flatout
Ottawa Ont.
Joined: 11/20/2001
View Profile
Offline
|
I think the motive behind going to 600 is an attempt to generate interest from the four manufacturers. But personally I dont see the factories supporting the ovals like they do in sno-cross any time soon so lets just do what is best for our sport and not worry about apeasing the manufacturers too much. The Champ 440 formula right now works. Speeds are at where they should be. Reliability has also greatly improved with the newer crop of reed engines. We see much fewer burnt engines than we used to. The sound is that of a true race engine and face it we need good sound to create crowd appeal. Going to a stock or a y pipe will kill the sound. Engines are still plentiful. A lot of sno cross sleds are doing the engine swap to 600 or 800s. For example you can pick up a 06-07 used 440 engine on Doo talk right now complete for around $700-$1,000. Parts are plentiful as well. The 600 class in full mod is too fast. It reminds me of the FIII class. We eventually ran out of drivers!
Just my 2 cents worth (cdn.)
HG
|
proton
USA
Joined: 01/18/2004
View Profile
|
I think Jerry is spot on...the 440 engine formula is solid, if parts become a problem, there are a ton of aftermarket folks who would be happy to build cylinders, heads, pistons ect.
Going to a stock engine with a single pipe would ruin the technical side of the sport which has its own following.
|
Hoglund Racing
Minneapolis, MN
Joined: 05/13/2008
View Profile
|
Howard and Proton hit it on the head. Don't ruin the only good thing we got going. I hated Champ when the Manufacturers and Jerry presented it. But it WAS the right move even if we lost the Manufacturers one by one along the way. Champ has kept this sport alive the last 5 years. My opinion.
|
PDRacing
Sarnia, Ontario
Joined: 03/16/2004
View Profile
|
proracer wrote:Been pro at it + Finding the sponsor and be part of the Class to watch. Factory don't get involve,To bad. They would'nt anyway cause of less snow, less interest from family and automaticly selling less sled.
JV#96 
Jacques is right. Champ is a higher end class. I prefer to call it Formula 1 Ice Oval Racing. We need title sponsors out side the sled manufactures for it to grow.
Case in point, This year DeWalt is my title sponsor. They have even booked the other half of BRP's Suite at Grand Prix de Valcourt. They think this is a great sport and suits their demographic of customers. They don't care what motors are in the sleds. We just need to be entertaining and look good. Any way just my 2cents worth 
Richard Scroggs #13
|
glhperformance
downing wi
Joined: 01/20/2005
View Profile
Offline
|
i am not a racer but am close to a good motor builder out there and from what i was told was exactly what johny is saying. The teams with deep pocket books will still win. They will switch brands every year depending on who builds the best 600 motor that year. This will happen by these teams buying a couple of motors from each manufacturer and then dyno them and then when they determine which one makes the most power they will run that brand that year. It will hurt the lower budgeted teams because by the time they figure out which one runs the strongest they will have already spent there budget and if they did not guess which brand was the best they will be in the back of the pack! This will drive away the drivers! Stock is the worst form of racing in your premier class.
Change is always going to be not accepted by everyone. Few will quit but if the changes that are made are done for the better for the sport there will be more drivers in the long run. Ice racing has had a mod 600 for a few years now and there are getting to be more of them out there every year. The transition to mod 600s should not be very difficult. Keep the semi pro classes at a 440 for a few additional years to help the pros move some of there old equipment on to new up and coming drivers.
On the last note! How would other forms of racing survive such as your local dirt track or even as big as nascar if they were running stock motors and didnt have the speed and noise that they have.
Good luck and i am sure you as a great form of snowmobile racing will make the right decision.
glhperformance
|
tp176
Rome, NY
Joined: 03/30/2006
View Profile
Offline
|
I am also in favor of what Jerry has stated. I will go one small step though and suggest that we allow any ignition system when the rules are opened for discussion. It is far less expensive and much faster to be able to test a timing curve change while you are on the dyno - not sending it back and forth to the manufacturer.
I would also like to see Jerry finish his proposal for redundant / battery operated tail light. I am with you on that one Jerry - we were close last year but as I recall had a hard time with verbage that would have been idiot proof - fool proof is easy!
|
